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Candlelight Key

 
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Should there be another Candlelight Key in the SLC area?
Yes
88%
 88%  [ 8 ]
No
11%
 11%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 9

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CaverStretch



Joined: 07 Dec 2005
Posts: 44
Location: Orem, Utah

PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 2:46 pm    Post subject: Candlelight Key Reply with quote

I think the Salt Lake Grotto, the Wasatch Grotto, and the Bear River Grotto should have a key to Candlelight Cave that is located Salt Lake Area.

There would be a key holder accessable in the Utah Valley Area and a key holder accessable in the Salt Lake Area.

Let me throw out some questions for discussion:

1. Is there enough demand from the other grottos to have a key located in the SLC area?

2. Would this help alleviate some of the problems that have come up on recent trips with access to the key?

3. Who could be a key holder? Someone like a Dale Green.

I am going to bring this topic up for the next Utah Grottos meeting, but I want to get some input and see what people think first.

Robert Cranney
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tamiejensen



Joined: 16 Dec 2005
Posts: 10
Location: West Valley City, UT

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:24 pm    Post subject: non-trip report for candlelight 12/18/05 Reply with quote

I think that James and I could have found a new leader and salvaged the trip if there was another key. For those of you that dont know: Myself, James and Ralph were going to Candlelight 12/18/05. Unfortunately, Ralph woke up about 3 hours late. After driving 50 miles, I sat in his driveway for 2 of those 3 hours considering my options. It all kept coming back to the key issue. The only choice was to go home and try not to be too angry with Ralph. When is the next turn for Salt Lake Grotto?
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Deafnss



Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 61
Location: Provo/Orem Utah

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 10:56 pm    Post subject: Re: non-trip report for candlelight 12/18/05 Reply with quote

tamiejensen wrote:
I think that James and I could have found a new leader and salvaged the trip if there was another key. For those of you that dont know: Myself, James and Ralph were going to Candlelight 12/18/05. Unfortunately, Ralph woke up about 3 hours late. After driving 50 miles, I sat in his driveway for 2 of those 3 hours considering my options. It all kept coming back to the key issue. The only choice was to go home and try not to be too angry with Ralph. When is the next turn for Salt Lake Grotto?

Even if James had the key or there was another one to pick up... the trip limit was severely strained with just us three... so the two of you would've been in violation of TOA with the BLM and the management plan. Still the three of us probably would've been stressing the limit... it might be four the minimum.
Still...


Hell, I thought I apologized publically for that anyway. Confused
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tamiejensen



Joined: 16 Dec 2005
Posts: 10
Location: West Valley City, UT

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 11:07 pm    Post subject: ralph, you misunderstand Reply with quote

Ralph,
you misunderstand. It is not that we would have gone on our own. We would have not violated any thing. We could have found some one to replace you instead of wasting gas and a caving day.
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CaverStretch



Joined: 07 Dec 2005
Posts: 44
Location: Orem, Utah

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 11:16 pm    Post subject: Fustration Reply with quote

Ralph, you gotta realize that the post was probably written before she saw your apology on the Utah Caver site.

We all make mistakes. Don't stress over it.

I remember Clair Call hiked a group all the way to Spanish Moss, only to find out that the key was sitting on his counter top at home. He felt really bad about it. But they got over it (With the help of some pizza of course).

Side Note:
I just read the Candlelight Cave Management Plan for the first time (Of course I have read it many times before while leading trips though the cave Laughing ), and I noticted something. The management plan only states that you can have a maximum of 6 (six) people on the trip. With no more than 4 (four) people in small areas.

This means you can do Candlelight alone. Sweet. Without a helmet. Sweet. Maybe the management plan on the Timp Grottos web site is not complete. But if it is, maybe we should update it.
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Deafnss



Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 61
Location: Provo/Orem Utah

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah well water under under the bridge shouldn't be drank anyway.... A bear might've peed in it.
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CaverStretch



Joined: 07 Dec 2005
Posts: 44
Location: Orem, Utah

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:28 pm    Post subject: Voting Reply with quote

Don't just vote and not post your opinion. That defeats the purpose of this group. If you vote, tell the group why you voted the reason you did.

I would like some input from the persons that voted "No" on the poll question. You could add some valuable information and insite on this discussion. And I would be interested in your opinion too.

Robert
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deb



Joined: 07 Dec 2005
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:27 pm    Post subject: each grotto should have a key Reply with quote

what's wrong with each grotto having a key, and agreeing to use it only when it's their turn? Also is there a copy? What happens if that one key gets lost.
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TigerStripe40



Joined: 21 Dec 2005
Posts: 10
Location: My Own Little World

PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am all for each grotto having a copy of the cave keys.

While having one key holder makes for good access control,
Having one keyholder puts alot of stress on that one person.

It also makes it rather bad if one grotto gets the key and does not return it, OR looses it.

That said, my concern is that if each grotto has it's own key that could create issues with abuse of the cave and abuse of the management plan.
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observeram



Joined: 21 Dec 2005
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think every grotto should have a key. I think we are responsible enough to follow the management plan.
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