The Utah Caving Forum Forum Index The Utah Caving Forum
A forum for the Utah Grottos
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

management of SITLA caves
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Utah Caving Forum Forum Index -> Caving General Discussion and Questions
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
jonjasper



Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Posts: 54
Location: St. George, UT

PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:41 pm    Post subject: management of SITLA caves Reply with quote

Today, the Utah School and Institutional Trust Lands Administration (SITLA) signed an agreement with the Timpanogos Grotto giving us permission to manage access to Nutty Putty, Blowhole, Rabbit Trap, and Silly Putty Caves.

A permitting system will be completed and gates installed as soon as possible. The agreed access requirements (and future permit request forms) can be founded at http://www.caves.org/grotto/timpgrotto/NuttyPuttyAccess.html. These access requirements will be an easy adjustment for cavers, and a not so easy adjustment for the typical non-helmet wearing visitors. However these requirements are, believe it or not, modeled after the BSA scouting requirements.

For Nutty Putty Cave and Blowhole, the access request forms will be made available online, it will be mailed to me with signatures (plus scout trip permits), and then I will email the approved applicants the cave’s lock combination. For Rabbit Trap and Silly Putty, you will need to make arrangements to pick up a key.

I will give updates as the access request forms are available and when the cave gates are completed. Media releases will also follow this agreement and also immediately after Nutty Putty Cave’s closure. Until you hear the caves are closed, the caves are still open.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
jjackson



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow thats cool. will you be able to periodically change the combination for the lock? In case someone decided to publish the combinations on the net or otherwise distribute them.
will you need volunteers to put the gates in ?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
jamesdcawley



Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 13
Location: Logan, Utah

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 12:33 am    Post subject: Gating Reply with quote

If help gating is needed,
let us know. We would like to see how its done...
_________________
Hope to get to know everyone, I am with the former (for now) Bear River Grotto.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
caverdale



Joined: 22 Dec 2005
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 9:21 am    Post subject: Re: management of SITLA caves Reply with quote

jonjasper wrote:
Today, the Utah School and Institutional Trust Lands Administration (SITLA) signed an agreement with the Timpanogos Grotto giving us permission to manage access to Nutty Putty, Blowhole, Rabbit Trap, and Silly Putty Caves.


This is great news and you are to be congratulated on your efforts to resolve this ongoing problem. I still am perplexed about one aspect: As I understood the situation, when all this started SITLA imposed a huge liability requirement on any organization which assumed management of Nutty Putty. What happened? Or was I just confused?
_________________
Dale Green
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jonjasper



Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Posts: 54
Location: St. George, UT

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 10:49 am    Post subject: liability insurance? Reply with quote

To answer your question Dale, to lease the land SITLA required a $1,000,000 liability insurance coverage and a payment for approximately $600 to register the lease. Definitely, this was the state’s preferred option.

However, they now created a Memoriam of Understanding (MOU) agreement for the management of the caves. They knew that the grottos couldn't ever get a lease; however, believed that our proposal to gate and manage access was worth trying. They must have really believed because they also know how gating the cave raising their liability exposure.

Their other option was sealing the caves. Note they probably would have waited until a large event (a heavily covered rescue or fatality) occurred. With an estimated 5000 groups/year, most improperly trained and equipped, the accident is imminent. The main question is “Should we act now and save the cave's access and the poor sole who life dooms the cave?” So they agreed to work with us and try our suggestions.

Now we claim we can turn around the unsafe caving habits at Nutty Putty Cave. With the liability increased through gating there will be no returning to the non-managed access. So the great unknown is “Will the peaceful Utah society attack the gate and turn this effort into an accelerated closure for Nutty Putty Cave?”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
jonjasper



Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Posts: 54
Location: St. George, UT

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:59 pm    Post subject: Cave Gates Reply with quote

The gates have been completed and installed for Silly Putty Cave and Rabbit Trap Cave. If wishing to visit these caves, you will need to make arrangements with me to get the keys.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
jonjasper



Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Posts: 54
Location: St. George, UT

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 11:23 am    Post subject: Blowhole Cave Gate completed Reply with quote

The Blowhole Cave gate was completed on Wednesday, April 26. The gate is located about 10 ft below the entrance, so it actually isn't seen from the surface.

For the combination, contact me. The access requirements will be the same as Nutty Putty Cave (http://www.caves.org/grotto/timpgrotto/NuttyPuttyAccess.html).

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
jonjasper



Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Posts: 54
Location: St. George, UT

PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 9:31 am    Post subject: Nutty Putty Gated Reply with quote

The Nutty Putty Cave gate was completed early Tuesday morning (May 24).

Help spread the word ... You can gain access to Nutty Putty, Blowhole,
Trap Rabbit Trap, and Silly Putty by going to the Timpanogos Grotto
website reading up on the agreed SITLA and Timpanogos Grotto access
requirements, filling and signing the access request form, and sending
the form to the appropriate address. Once the signed request is
received, a combination will be emailed to you.


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
TigerStripe40



Joined: 21 Dec 2005
Posts: 10
Location: My Own Little World

PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, so I am reading the access requirements for Nutty Putty cave.

1. Is is absolutly necessary to have a group association?
-is Wasatch Cruisers an acceptable group?

2. So, my father and my little brother want to go to Nutty Putty cave. My little brother is 9 years old. He can't go even though his father is with us?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address MSN Messenger
jasonbx



Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 60
Location: SLC, Utah

PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll bump this up because I want to know the answer on the 9 year old question as well. I have a ten year old brother.

Also--is the gate in nutty putty inside the entrance a ways? I am trying to decide where you put it. Obviously not right at the entrance--I am guessing inside in the flat, wide area. That couldn't have been fun to install--although hopefully even less fun to try and circumvent.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
jonjasper



Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Posts: 54
Location: St. George, UT

PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 6:51 pm    Post subject: SITLA Age requirements Reply with quote

As the access requirements state, all participants going into Nutty Putty Cave, Blowhole, Rabbit Trap, and Silly Putty must be at least 14 years of age and be accompanied by two trip leaders that are 21 years of age.

Looking at the resulting demographic from the cave register the Scouts (17% of the total visitation) were heavily targeted over groups of family and friends (7% of the total visitation).

We did consider allowing the exception of parental guidance; however, it didn't make it into the agreement.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
jasonbx



Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 60
Location: SLC, Utah

PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No worries. After about 4 years any funny smells should have dissipated and will make the trip more enjoyable for me. Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
jonjasper



Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Posts: 54
Location: St. George, UT

PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:47 pm    Post subject: Nutty Putty CleanUp Trip Reply with quote

I am organizing a cleanup trip to Nutty Putty Cave for this Saturday (6/3).
We will try to thoroughly remove most of the trash, graffiti, and
other problems seen in and around the cave. So we will be attempting
to access most all of the reaches of the cave with laundry and trash
bags in hand.

The plan is to meet around 12:00 to 1:00 on Saturday and then head out
to the cave. So we would probably get to the cave around 3:00 pm. If
interested, email me directly to be included in the plans. The cave
will be locked behind us, so trying to meet us at the cave may be a bit
risky or a heavily test of your patience.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
jonjasper



Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Posts: 54
Location: St. George, UT

PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:38 pm    Post subject: More news coverage on Nutty Putty Cave Reply with quote

The Salt Lake Tribune ran this set of articles on the year anniversary of the 4 drownings in the Provo cave. The article heavily drifted to the topic of gating of Nutty Putty Cave which oddly the deaths almost prevented contrary to the article's view of them causing it.

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_4176043
In wake of Provo tragedy, deadly caves still unsealed

http://www.sltrib.com/search/ci_4176563
Nutty Putty Cave houses popular spelunking routes for explorers
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
jonjasper



Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Posts: 54
Location: St. George, UT

PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 1:49 pm    Post subject: Western Cave Conservancy Reply with quote

A big thanks goes to the Western Cave Conservancy in helping back back the SITLA Cave Gates. They were willing to pay us matching funds up to $5000 to help out; however, only ended up needing to provide $700 of the project's $2,100 expenditures.

They have a good article on their perspective of our efforts in the SILTA cave management http://www.westerncaves.org/article_v3n2_utah.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Utah Caving Forum Forum Index -> Caving General Discussion and Questions All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB 2.0.17-1 (Debian) © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group :: Spelling by SpellingCow.